exhaust system problem

[allen]

I have a problem in my exhaust system that is causing water to get into the #1 exhaust valve which causes it to stick next time I start the engine. I don't know what to do. The next paragraph describes the original exhaust. Next the one Svendsen's boat yard put in. Then the modifications I made to prevent the hydro lock the Svendsen's system caused. Finally the problem I am having and need suggestions on. I ask you all because I am thinking our boats are similar although mine being an L-36 with a Gray Marine 4-112 is clearly different.

When I got the boat, there was hot exhaust up to a standpipe muffler when then drained out the stern. I had a survey done in 1999 and as part of that the surveyor crushed my exhaust.

Svendsen's built a nice stainless loop at the manifold that has a water injection tube just past the hump. That is followed by a foot of tubing and a water lift muffler. The output of that was taken high to a point right under the deck right at the hull. From there it went out the stern. I had two instances of following seas that just ran right up that and filled the engine with water. It was very hard to start. At first I thought I had a dead battery. When it happened the second time I knew it was hydro lock. I also believe the high part went under water if the boat heeled excessively.

I moved the high spot to the stern centerline right under the deck. From there going aft it takes a sharp right angle and then out the transom.

The problem I am having is that the #1 exhaust valve. The valve right at the exit of the exhaust manifold, sticks. I have to take the plug out and pound the valve back down using a wood stick and a hammer. Some times this takes 20 times, some times only a few. If the valve is closed when the engine is shut down, that seems to help. Once I decided to just let it run on 3 cylinders for 10 minutes and see if it would clear up when the engine got hot. After 10 minutes, I took out the plug and ran it a bit so see if the valve was moving and it was like a water pump throwing water up in the air and all over the cockpit. Clearly water can get in there and that is what is causing my valve to stick. I have checked all the dimensions against the Vetus specifications and all the numbers are fine. I don't know what to do. So what do you all do to get the exhaust out of the boat?

[rcvesselstyn]

Hi Alan, I feel your pain. Everything looks good to me. I'm thinking that perhaps you have a failure either in the muffler or on your intake water air gap. If it was me, I would probably run the engine. Shut it down and disconnect the hose leading to the muffler and see if the water in your exhaust system is being pushed towards the engine by gravity, which would mean you'd have a failure in your muffler. Less likely but still a possibility would be a problem on your cooling water line. If the standing water level in your exhaust pipe was almost to the level of your elbow then the added water from the elevated coolant line could push it up over the top and you'd get water draining into your exhaust manifold. I know there's a lot of ifs here, but I guess the main thought is to test the system for a failure. Good luck! P.S. your website l-36.com has been a godsend for all of us looking for manuals. Thanks for that!

[rcvesselstyn]

Sorry Alan, L-36.com

[allen]

Thanks for the reply and suggestions. I have serviced the air gap and it looked fine so I will focus on your other suggestion. The one foot line going from the exhaust header to the muffler looks like a project to remove likely requiring replacing the hose to get it back together. But I think I can find the same thing by disconnecting the water inlet to the header and using some kind of "dip stick" to see how high the water is in the hose. I think your suggestion is excellent.

The muffler looks like it is just a big reservoir. What would a failure of the muffler look like? I have considered that perhaps I need a larger one but space is so limited that I am unclear if that is a good idea or not. Can these things fail? Perhaps it is filled with "dirt" and needs to be flushed out. I am not at all familiar with these things.

I will report back on what I find.

Thanks again,

Allen
L-36.com

[allen]

I notice Vetus has this similar muffler that might help me.

VETUS waterlock for long exhaust systems, type LSS, 45mm

From the manual:
LSS exhaust silencers have a very large capacity,
so that they are exceptionally suitable for use in systems with extra
long exhaust pipes. An extra large capacity waterlock is of vital importance for a sailing ship, which will roll and pitch in rough water
with the engine off!
The LSG-type waterlock is also fitted with a non-return valve; this virtually prevents any water entering the exhaust system. Water entry
can be caused by the ship pitching, waves from aft, or stopping the
ship quickly.

Does anyone happen to have any experience with it? It is 5.7 L instead of the 4.3 L of the standard version. They say it has a check valve and I know those things can have issues but perhaps it would solve my problem.

Defender doesn't carry it and in fact it was hard to find anyone that did. A red flag? I found it at Mauripro.

Allen

[rcvesselstyn]

Hi Alan, failures of the stainless steel mufflers ran rampant and destroyed more engines than I can count. The water lock mufflers are the answer. But I have heard of the odd failure of those. I made the assumption that you had a water lock muffler because of your high exit line. Obtaining a water lock muffler would be the most logical first step. Another point I did not bring up, you should change your crankcase oil immediately. If you had salt water in your cylinder and it was not under pressure it is quite likely that the saltwater would get past the rings and into your oil pan. There it would sink to the bottom. Unless there was a large amount and you could see that your oil level had increased on your dipstick, that salt water would just stay down there and rust out your oil pan. If there was enough of it then it would get into your crankshaft bearings and freeze your engine. After a water in the cylinder incident you should squirt some oil into the cylinder to decease the chance of damage. Let it sit for a bit. Then run the engine up to normal temp. It will smoke like a son of a gun at first.

[allen]

I do have a water lift muffler. Specifically a Vetus LP45. I am likely to switch that out to a Vetus LSS45A unless someone talks me out of it.

I talked to Vetus Technical Support today and the take away is that likely the muffler has filled with carbon and no longer has the capacity it should. I plan to check that tomorrow.

I did have water in my oil. The oil came out a gray color and then over the course of several weeks sitting on the bench the gray separated and dirty oil sat on top and the gray section kept getting smaller and smaller. The gray is now down to 40ml. The gray is a suspension of water and oil and it isn't "breaking" into just water. The next oil change showed no sign of water or a suspension. I am changing my oil about monthly until the oil quits looking so dirty.

[allen]

Today I went to Papoose and checked out a few things. I removed the water injection hose and inserted a 1/4 OD hose as far as it could go which was about to the top of the muffler. There was no water there so the water lift muffler was not overfilled. Then I ran the engine for 15 minutes and repeated the test with the same result. I was not able to determine if the water lift was dirty as removing the feed hose looks like a destructive exercise and I don't have replacement inlet exhaust hose yet.

I also found that the capacity of the LSS45A is likely 5.7 liters. I have been told it is 1.25 gallons which is 4.6 liters if that is US gallons but I think it is imperial gallons which is conveniently 5.7 liters. It is amazing that I can ask various tech support people a simple question and get 3 different answerers, 4.6, 5.7, and 7.5. I still have concerns if it will fit and that will wait to Monday.

All that said, I am no closer to finding out how water was getting into the engine than when I started.

Allen

[rcvesselstyn]

Well Allan, if it not the exhaust then you have to consider a blown head gasket or cracked head or block. Evil stuff... hope it's the exhaust.

[rcvesselstyn]

Or cracked exhaust manifold.